The following is the transcript of a conversation between a high school teacher, Ron Black, and a seventh-grade student at another school, Laura Thompson.

Ron: What do you think makes a good teacher, Laura?

Laura: I think one of the most important things is enthusiasm, and an interest in the students. School kids always know if a teacher is genuine or not. If the teacher isn’t interested in them he or she won’t be enthusiastic, obviously. They always know if he or she’s on their side or not. They’ve got to know their stuff, too. If they’re not qualified or don’t really know their subject well, the students can’t be confident about their ability, so I guess what I’m saying is that they have to be able to trust him or her.

Ron: Yes, I agree.

Laura:Also, they have to be organized and confident, otherwise they won’t have good discipline in their classes. The kids will talk and play around and then the class becomes a waste of time. Actually, most kids don’t like undisciplined classes. They need direction. Most kids don’t want to mess about but if the teacher lets them get away with things then they can’t help themselves. The teacher has to be firm and organized and show the kids who’s the boss. But it’s good if they have a sense of humour. That’s quite important. I think they have to be a bit of an actor as well, and make things come alive. That’s one way that a teacher can show they understand the kids, if they can make them laugh.

Ron:Mm.

Laura:Mind you, there’s nothing worse than a teacher whose sense of humour isn’t quite right, and makes jokes that don’t make the kids laugh. It’s hard to say anything very definite about teachers in general, because they’re all so different. All the things I’ve just said about good teachers, you could find bad teachers who have them too; they can be enthusiastic or know their subject really well and still not connect with the kids. There’s a teacher in our school who’s a real clown. She’s really funny. You’re laughing from the moment she opens the door till the moment she goes out, but we never learn anything. We just spend all the time laughing. Really, our jaws ache after the class, but we never get down to studying properly. So really we’re not happy with the class although we all enjoy being there. Do you know what I mean?

Ron:Yes, I think I understand.

Laura:And sometimes you get someone who’s really tough, and really serious but the students like them because they get through a lot of work and they learn a lot. So they don’t mind accepting very strict rules and no laughing and joking, because they know the teacher’s serious but you can make progress with them. Anyway, what do you think? Do you agree with me?

Ron:Yes I do. I think you’ve said it all really. Everyone’s different and it’s hard to predict what a teacher’s like from the person you see outside the classroom. Thinking back to my time at school, I remember examples of the same things that you’re saying, for example about being qualified. I remember my maths teacher, who was someone who’d gone into teaching after the war, like so many did. There weren’t enough teachers and there were a lot of youngish men who had missed out on their education because of the war and weren’t really qualified to do anything, because they’d spent all the time when they should have been studying away at the war. They were given a quick crash course in how to teach — three months or so — and put in front of a class of kids. Iori — that was the name of this maths teacher, or at least our nickname for him — he was one of these crash-course teachers, and he had no maths qualification. But he was the best teacher I ever had, and all my classmates felt the same. We all respected his ability. We enjoyed his classes and there was never any question of anyone playing about in the class — he never had to say a harsh word to anyone. And we learnt much quicker than people in the so-called higher classes did, but no one ever wanted to go up into the top class, because no one ever wanted to leave Iori’s class.

Let’s look at the other side of this: what do you think makes a good student?

Laura:Well, perhaps you’d know this better than I, because you have to teach students, but I don’t look at them in the same way. The students I know are almost all my friends, so perhaps I can’t see them as clearly as you can. But anyway, let’s see. I think a good student is not necessarily a clever student. You know, some people seem to learn just automatically without having to do any work. They might be good students or they might not. A good student is someone who wants to learn, first of all. And then they’ve got to have good study skills — they’ve got to know how to study, both in the class and outside. But they probably shouldn’t be too serious about their studies, so that they never do anything else. They should have some other interests, and do things with others, whether it’s sport or some other activity, like they might be interested in films or in playing chess, or just generally be good company for their classmates and friends; and they should be able to have a laugh with the others too. What do you think?

Ron:Yes, I think the sort of person you’re describing sounds like a good student — it’s no good being too serious and they don’t have to be too clever, but they do have to take an interest in things. One thing teachers like is students who ask questions, at least those who ask sensible questions, because usually those questions are in other people’s minds already, and it helps the teacher to explain things in a way that students can understand. It shows the teacher when he or she isn’t making things quite clear enough. There’s nothing a teacher hates more than a class full of students who never say anything, so you never know if they’ve understood what you’re teaching them or not. What else can I say? Yes, students who try to be too clever, to show they’ve understood everything, usually before the rest of the class have got the idea — they can be very difficult to handle. They’re different from the students who ask questions because they really don’t understand something, and they don’t help the teacher to move the class forward.

Laura: Do you think all teachers see good students in the same way?

Ron: No, I don’t. I think there are teachers who encourage those students who answer all the time, to show the others that at least somebody is learning. But I think they’re the teachers who are teaching just the best students and don’t pay as much attention to the ones who fall behind. I think a good teacher should try to teach all the class, not just the cleverest ones and not just the slower ones. I think teaching is a balancing act, in all sorts of ways, and that’s one of them.

Laura: You mean there needs to be a balance between too much joking and being too serious?

Ron: Exactly. It’s all about balance. And in a way it’s the same for students. Of course, it’s different with them too, because they aren’t grown-up people yet and they’re still finding their own personalities and their own ways of doing things. But the best students are the ones who show a balance between being too eager and too bored, between being too serious and too wild, between talking all the time and being quiet as mice.

Laura: Mm, I think I might need to brush up my own balance a bit more.

Ron: I think we probably all do, Laura!